Drawing the Line on Love?
My adult foster cat went MIA while I was out of town last week, so I’ve been training myself to hold pictures of him being delightfully held captive by some sweet well-meaning 8 year old girl.
I’m proud for feelingly only slightly hurt that he might enjoy someone else’s company more than mine. I’m okay with that. More power to him!
I’m also okay with the fact that when my two year old chow puppy sees his groomer he goes berzerk with joy. You’d think he was reuniting with his long lost love each time he sees her! This is his groomer, mind you. It’s not like she’s feeding steaks and taking him on pleasant walks. But even though it’s not the most pleasant thing they do together, he adores her.
So much so that I follow her to whatever location she moves to, just so he can continue being with someone he loves so much.
The question is, would I do the same for Russ? lol
I mean, if my sweetie was having an incredibly good time with someone, would I encourage him to continue? Would I easily release him so he could maintain his good time? Even drive him there myself if he couldn’t get there on his own?
I’d surely release him, ha! But I’m not sure I’d have as good feelings about it.
When he has a good time with his golf buddies, I strongly support that. (Even if it means I’m home alone.) Or when he wants to go bowling in Albuquerque with his son, absolutely. I’m all for it!
Why is it different if it were a new romantic love interest that captured his heart?
To be honest, I’m not sure it is. He hasn’t put me to the test on this, but I really like the thought that I’d be happy for him even if he fell in love with another woman. That’s what love is, right? Unconditional. It doesn’t exist only when circumstances are lined up “right.” It either is or it isn’t (love).
And if I say I love him (as I do my foster cat and my chow puppy), then I would be as enthusiastic and encouraging of my sweetheart indulging in something (or someone) he loves as much as I am everyone else.
Sounds good, anyway.
I do know this much: if I draw the line on love, then it isn’t really love. Or if it is, it’s so clouded by egoic fears that I just can’t feel it any more.
As always, I’d like to hear your take when you feel inspired to share …
(Update: per John’s comment #67, here’s the Love Tabby himself, with a few words for you when you click here):
August 25th, 2008 at 1:53 pm
This could be one of the bravest things I’ve ever seen in type.
Generally, expressions anything remotely like this sort are quickly followed by a deluge of fear-driven drivel, denials of the premise for a variety of cognitive dissonance-ridden rationales.
That is not going to happen in this case, of course. Like when you dared to ask, “What if we treated our ‘loved ones’ as well as we treated our pets?” (another dangerous notion to all too many), intelligent discourse will flow from the community here, outpourings of thoughts provoked and souls soberly stirred.
As for myself, I do not know if I’ve bravery enough even to honestly ask myself the question; but I will try.
August 25th, 2008 at 1:58 pm
Well, I’m no relationship expert but I’m pretty sure there is a difference between a relationship with a pet and a relationship with a mate. I don’t think the kitty or puppy ever really made a commitment to you. Therefore there is no broken trust and easier for you to feel happy for the little one.
August 25th, 2008 at 3:11 pm
Yes, I think that strikes the root of it. Your puppy it not likely to remove expressions of love toward you just because it also exuberantly loves the groomer, your boyfriend, and the kid down the street. Human romantic interest is much more likely to be placed in exactly 1 place, and jealously naturally grows from the fear of that distraction.
Or…?
It’s at this point that the waters become quite deep. I’m tempted to say, “and murky,” but I know dang well that it’s darker but pretty clear. It’s the point at which my bravery falters.
August 25th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
Jeannette! Strong post!
I think it is very simple.
Love loves.
That’s it.
Love loves.
I don’t think there is a distinction between loving a person, pet, tree, place or thing. Love is energy, just like everything else.
Our cultural conditioning may have a hand in how we think love ’should’ be…but love doesn’t do ’shoulds’. Step outside of the social constraints and it’s easy to see that love isn’t possession, jealousy, fear or exclusion. It certainly has nothing to do with commitment.
Love loves.
Talk about freedom . . . and peace
Love to you all,
Kim
August 25th, 2008 at 5:06 pm
Hey Kim,
You’re right, Love has nothing to do with commitment. But relationships do. And thus Jeannette’s quandary. No one is every in a relationship with their pets, they just love their pets. So all is good. But the relationship adds another element to it. So there’s another level. I’m sure Jeannette would be happy for Russ if she loves him. But there is another entity there called the relationship which is really separate from the whole love thing. The relationship involves more then just love. So that’s why it’s different.
Blue Skies,
Jeff
August 25th, 2008 at 6:10 pm
Well, I am no relationship expert either, but feeling “jealous” is normal when we love a person. I think if we don’t feel a slight jealousy in a realtionship is the time when we have stopped caring about this person. I also think there is a reason why we do feel jealousy, is because we were “intended” to marry and produce and raise offspring and you need a sense of committment, dedication and loyalty to raise the next generation, or else the entire world would be indulging in a chaotic polygamy. And I sure agree that a realtionship with a pet can’t be compared to a relationship with a husband or boyfriend.
August 25th, 2008 at 6:17 pm
I have tgo confess that I had to read this post a couple of times. The first few times I couldn’t get the “What-is-Jeannette-putting-out-into-the-Universe?” thoughts out of my head. My own “egoic” attachments were screaming (out of concern). Finally, I think I’ve relaxed into a more trusting space, trusting my beloved Master Vibe Handler is aligned with her wellbeing and knows exactly what she’s doing.
Which brings me to the point that Jeff was making above: our relationships with Our People are very different from those with Our Animals. Different needs are being fulfilled, different dynamics being enacted and different expectations develop.
I can truthfully say that I want the best for the people with whom I’m in relationship. And I can say with equal certainty that I’m not that evolved to the point where my own vibe doesn’t waver (dare I say, “implode”–at certain times?) when they make their choices. I’m just not that Good. And, of the many therapists and “aware” people I’ve met, I’d guess that only a tiny minority could truthfully claim such pure Allowing.
That being said, that goal gives me something to work towards while I’m in (and after I’m no longer in) relationship with X. Treating my loved ones at least as good as my pets is a lesson I learned here and makes so much sense to me because, for me, the stakes are higher. I can remind myself (sometimes more readily than others) of that goal and I can use that reminder to ease into a space of greater Allowing. (Sometimes, after a particularly heinous break-up, I might have to plan dramatic and grisly revenge after revenge first but I can get there. Haagen-Dazs helps.)
And then I have to get back into Deliberate Creating mode, working all the tools I’ve learned here, in therapy or from my experience to date.
And I know I’ve gotten my vibe under control when I am truly aligned (without any hook) with wanting and allowing all of our progress.
Hmmm, this all is probably T.M.I. but I’ll leave it in salute of Jeannette’s courage in baring her soul for this post. (I’l just apologise for having bored those of you I did. )
August 25th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
I forgot to mention, Jeannette, how stunned I am about how fast you can think of new post topics to write. You really do have an unlimited source of creativity.(That is the “Monkey’s” speciality) Sorry did not mean to go off topic, just wanted to express my observation!
August 25th, 2008 at 6:51 pm
Ahh I read this and no one had posted. I was going to but decided against it. To say you love someone and would be happy for them if they decided to love another person romantically … You would have to be a saint to say “go on sweetheart, i’m so happy you now love someone else, excuse me while I pack myself away”..
Yes, I want my partner to be happy. No, I am not going to feel happy if he fell in love with someone else while we were still together. Of course I will be hurt. And sad! After a while, I would move on but romantic love and universal love are different and I don’t know if I believe all love is TRULY, PURELY unconditional, even if we would like to think so…
I find myself in sync with Jeff’s thoughts on this and I don’t think its a question of being brave enough to ask this of yourself, rather one of understanding that yes, for whatever reason, relationship love is different and encompasses more trust, commitment, intimacy and soul sharing than most other types… Hmmm ok will let this percolate and check in later .. what a left field topic
August 25th, 2008 at 7:11 pm
Anna weighing in here, and did I mention that I’ve been involved with a man who was also involved with another woman, and another, and another? I’m not exactly sure how many he peaked out at while we were intimately involved, and I don’t want to know.
It was little more than 5 months in when I found out. Stunned, shocked and locked in “it doesn’t make sense,” I shed a few tears, told him I thought he was a MAN, thanked him for everything good, said our last time together was wonderful for me, and walked away.
In the week following I had a few of the most extraordinary experiences of my life: A psychic past-present-future dream; An angel showed itself to me; I saw our relationship from a perspective of the Universe; and Best of all, I recognized how I’d grown since we met, in ways I’d only imagined possible.
You betcha I opted to continue seeing him!
Imagine having caught scent of Ambrosia’s Aroma as it simmered… wouldn’t you want to know its taste? How it moved over the tongue to the back of your mouth, that mini-secret quick swish as the Adam’s Apple comes up to snatch it, safe inside the esophagus…
I didn’t and don’t expect anyone to understand. It’s very personal, spiritual… and extraordinarily exhilarating!
To feel so Right, so Free - the Absolute
of Everything and All
that IS and FREE…
Wacky as it sounds, even to me (oye) it’s the truth.
And it’s only because I found my way (thank you Jeannette) to letting him off the hook for anything and everything.
Aaahhhh…
August 25th, 2008 at 8:15 pm
OK Jeanette, you crossed the line on this one - in my books.
I hear you about unconditional love but guess what? we are just not that evolved. I want to see my husband doing what makes him happy as long as it is not another woman. I do not want to share that love I have with him with anyone else. Yes, my love is conditional.
The Bible talks of three types of love, Agape, Eros and Phileo. The Agape love is the love Source has for us. Eros is erotic love and Phileo is brotherly love. Eros is reserved for the marriage relationship or in your case boyfriend relationship. I do not want to share that in any way shape or form.
The point is that there are different types of love and different types of relationships.
I am from a third world country. I have seen women live harmoniously in a polygamous relationship. They all like each other and everyone understands the rules.
However, I believe that my love is worth one man’s full and devoted attention.
I jealously guard that in a good way.
In fact, if the truth be told, I get jealous when my husband is on the phone talking to his sister for two or three hours. What the heck are they talking about?
It does not bother me when he does that with his brothers!
It is because his sister has a strong woman vibe in her relationship with him. Nothing inappropriate - She really adores her older brother.
That bothers me! Talk less of another woman.
I do not think that relationships thrive with a lot of outside interferrence. Relationships need solitude and exclusivity to thrive.
True intimacy has to have safety. Part of safety is knowing that both of you are in a wonderful cocoon all by yourselves.
At least that is my take on it.
Iyabo
www.AuthenticChangeAgent.com
August 25th, 2008 at 8:53 pm
Oh my word - I’m in LOVE with this discussion!! Where do I start?!?!
Ahhh … you guys are so much fun!
I will say this right off the top - I’m with Kim. Love is love. There are no conditions, no clauses, no ifs ands or buts.
But I’m not done reading these fabulous comments yet … so I’ll check in again shortly …
August 25th, 2008 at 8:55 pm
Ha! “Haagen Dazs helps”! lol You crack me up, Paul!
August 25th, 2008 at 9:27 pm
Okay, I’ve got a story.
When I was miserably married (which is what I thought marriage inevitably was - which is why I accepted it as such), my husband found love at the bowling alley and/or with a co-worker (or two). I don’t really know the details.
But I do know that he had one small light in his life somewhere that I knew nothing about.
And there is no way I would deny him that.
Not because I wanted justification to find my own small light - that wasn’t it at all.
I just knew he deserved some happiness. We all do. And Lord knows he wasn’t finding it at home with me. Neither was I! lol
My co-workers thought I was insane - “wake up and smell the coffee” they told me. It was obvious even to them.
But honestly, I didn’t believe it would help the situation at all for me to know anything or try to stop anything. In fact, I’d still be married to him to this day if he hadn’t said it was time for me to go make myself happy since he was doing the same (finding his own happiness).
Now in my book, THAT’S gonna require a divorce. And so it went.
To this day, I really hope Kevin had a good time and that someone treated him well, because he deserves it.
So I guess this discussion isn’t as theoretical for me as I thought it was.
Paul’s comment about what I’m creating with these words made me smile, because I thought the same thing as I wrote it. “Do I really want to put this out there?”
Russ deserves more love than I can even imagine … I mean, he went without for a long time, and he deserves a bunch of really good steamy hot make-your-heart-beat-fast love affairs. The kind that keep you up at night and make you screw up at work. Maybe I can only say that as someone who has had her share. lol
What could be better than that kind of love? (Well, dog love, but I don’t expect anyone else to agree with me - ha!)
If he finds something that makes his heart beat faster than it does now, …. CONGRATULATIONS!
I’m not saying my ego isn’t going to have a fit about it and probably use some four letter words for a while, but would I want him to miss out on something that good? Never in a million years.
And you want to hear the funny thing? When I’ve told him this, it makes him mad because he thinks it means I don’t really truly love him.
And it’s just the opposite - I DO love him.
That’s exactly why I would wish for nothing else other than his highest happiness. If that includes me, fabulous! If that includes someone else, fabulous!
How can I get this wrong? I can’t. He can’t.
Which is why I’m not fearful of what talking about this might attract. There is no shortage of love in my world, so … no fear, no jealousy. Which I think is why it’s so easy and natural for me to be friends with all my exes - not because I wasn’t hurt by them or they didn’t dump me for other women - but because … well, I love them.
How else can I say it?
I think a lot of us react the way we think we’re “supposed” to. We doing what’s expected, driven by ego fears. My ex-beau said that when he told me Kita died, and I wasn’t sad at all, more surprised than anything, as I didn’t see that coming, and he wrinkled his brow and said, “What’s WRONG with you?” Which was my cue to move into grief. He expected me to be sad, so I started it up. Then he left, and I found the peace again.
And, having said all that, I’m not on a mission to change anyone’s mind about this topic.
But I will say this - anyone who thinks we don’t have relationships with our dogs is … well, you’re working on a different definition of relationship than I am. I mean, in my world, I have a relationship with my computer, with my garbage man I’ve never talked to (who I thank & bless every week), with my food, with my body, with all of you! So of COURSE I have one with my dogs, too!
Is it different than the relationship with my sweetie? YES. Is it less than? For me, never.
And for me, it’s the standard. Like, the ultimate. I mean, if someone is getting the kind of love from me that my dog gets - I can’t imagine it gets any better than that. There’s no holding back, there’s no shutting it off, there’s no hoops they gotta jump through before they’re getting the love from me.
(And several boyfriends have said as much - how they’d like to come back as one of my dogs.)
Okay, going to go contemplate this more with my sweetie to determine if I am foolin’ myself about where I stand with Russ and his imagined mistress or if I got a good handle on how I really feel.
Thanks for the stimulating topic!
‘Night all!
August 25th, 2008 at 9:31 pm
And PS - I think it’s exactly this approach to love that allows some of my closest friends to be the lovers I met through my boyfriends and ex-husband.
I’m not even denying MYSELF the love and friendship of those women, let alone the men I love! (Pam & Carol - I’m talking about YOU here!)
And also why I can hand boyfriends off to girlfriends who think they have a shot with my guy. Go for it! We can all still be friends as far as I’m concerned.
Am I totally weird? If so, I love that about me. lol
August 25th, 2008 at 9:42 pm
Allowing others more love, (like we have any control over that) - I say yeah to that - I say hip hip hurray to enlarging the scope of love in each and everyone’s heart, even in little chow puppy hearts.
Love Leslie
Love Leslie
August 25th, 2008 at 9:53 pm
This brings me to ask: what do you do when your partner’s values are different from yours? I find it hard to be non-judgemental when someone behaves in a manner contradicatory to my core values ….
For eg: Two of my main values are respect and honesty, and as a result I would rather someone be honest with me even if it hurts, rather than lie or keep secrets from me to avoid hurting me. To me, that equates to respect!
How I dealt with it when it (a sort of cover up…) happened today was I first reacted to this person (ok, my ex!) as though he had violated my values (and I felt he had) and after I had thought about it, I apologised for judging his actions and saw that he really was trying to “protect” me in his own way. It definately feels worse when a partner (or ex partner) does that and harder to understand cos we “expect” so much more from our significant others than we do from our friends.
There is a part of relationship love that IS as unconditional as love can be but there is an added dimension that goes far deeper than we can simplistically pop in the Universal box. It is what makes us as human as we are..
This brings me to the Eros love (Iyabo, that was a BRILLIANT post and I am with you there!!) and the distinction is clear to me - its primal, survivalistic and special in a way. I have to admit, this post is a bit divisive, its going into our core, not as light hearted and fun, rather very deep and strring up deeply seated ideas, feelings and beliefs! Its hard not to “take sides” or stay neutral about some experiences …
Just wondering, what brought this up Jeannette? What have you been thinking? And I wonder what we will learn here, very interesting!!
August 25th, 2008 at 9:55 pm
Omg when i started typing this, the last post was J’s Haagen Das comment. And now look how many more have been added!!! Gonna read them now to see if my post has already been answered .. LOL you are quick!!
August 25th, 2008 at 10:13 pm
That was nice - Russ is just as convinced as ever that I’m “way out there.” lol
He repeats that hearing that I would (eventually) wish him the best if he found love with another makes him feel as if I don’t care. And that it bothers him immensely that I am friends with exes.
Well, he gets to feel how he wants to feel, and so do I.
Thanks for your well-wishes for chow puppies, Leslie!
And Tia, I’m in that situation - my sweetie has dramatically different values than I do. What do I do in that situation? I remember that what’s important to me isn’t necessarily important to him, I point out to him that different things matter to each of us, and I do my best to honor what matters to him to the extent it feels good to me. (Which is surprisingly easy for me to do.)
I’ll agree, Tia, this subject gets the gremlins going, but I don’t think of it as black & white or divisive. Of course, I wouldn’t - otherwise I wouldn’t have brought it up (since one of my top values is Connection)!
But what brought it up was the missing tabby, as I gave up my fearful thoughts of what might have happened to him and embraced thoughts that someone was being so good to him that he didn’t want to come home. I realized what a dramatically different turn that was for me than in the early 90’s when my two chow puppies exploded with joy when the couple that raised them came to check up on them two months later.
I was crushed that both dogs went nuts to see this couple again, when I was lucky to coax them out from under my bed. Seemed like they were lavishing the love I wanted on someone who shouldn’t have been getting it.
So I thought of how much had changed since it just makes me smile to see Koda go nuts for Chris, and how I go out of my way to make sure he gets time with her.
Life’s lessons are everywhere, huh? lol
August 25th, 2008 at 10:14 pm
Ahhhhh!!
1) I totally get the part about wanting them to be happy. I wish that for my ex too, every success he has is sweet for me as I love seeing him happy! And yes I tell him he will find someone wonderful who is just right for him, but I can say that because I dont “expect” anything from him anymore. I would react out of a sense of hurt and betrayal if it happened when we were together (and Jeannette, glad your ex husb motivated you to take action to create / own your happiness
2) No one said a relationship with a dog was less than one with a friend / partner - just that it was different. We don’t ‘expect’ our dogs/cats to give us anything in return we LOVE them as they are without wanting them to be any different!!!. Which would be AMAZING in a human-human relationship if our species was that evolved
Im sure we are on our way though!
3) And I love that I am friends with all my exes too, and that I can genuinely be happy for them all!
4) Im sensing this whole issue revolves around the word EXPECTATIONS! Next post idea
Wow, this sure was an intense one. Im going to go eat some Nutella to lighten up (or is that load up!??) Ha! HA!
August 25th, 2008 at 10:38 pm
Ok wrong usage of the word divisive… guess i meant its brought out so many different (and strong / unwavering) view points but thats all harmonious too isnt it … the beauty of celebrating differences!
And the difference in your reaction to the pups - boils down to how comfortable and secure you are now in your own skin to share the love ay?
I love being in that place!!
Its common for many of us to feel threatened about our partner’s love and we constanly seek re-inforcement .. which reminds me of my younger days when previous exes would get possessive about me and it (was their way of showing) / made me feel they cared whereas now it might make me wonder about their own insecurity levels …. On a totally diff note - my Internet is all wonky this is the ONLY site apart from my yahoo inbox it has let me access for the last 2 hours!!! What the..!? Usually I spend all my time on facebook but now I’m hanging out here cos I can’t do anything else LOL which is why Im taking over this discussion … muwaahhhahahahaha
August 25th, 2008 at 10:42 pm
Tia, you take over the discussion anytime - your energy is nothing but a treat!
I agree with you completely that this is a reflection of one’s security level. Your example is a perfect point of it.
I’m giving thanks to your internet for giving us your undivded attention for two hours. lol Thanks for being here and for posting!
August 25th, 2008 at 11:09 pm
Thanks I love living here… and thats 3 hours now!! Must be a grand reason my I-net is steering me here tnite
…
Don’t know how I existed without this site, so glad I found you in May! I really do feel like I LIVE here morning noon and night … and i LOVE IT! Thank you for being in my world. I love you!
LOL. Nite and see you tmrw xx
August 26th, 2008 at 1:08 am
Okay. It does seem some kind of synchronicity happening again now. I only post here a few times yet. But I check this blog very often. And you really amaze me how you inspire people including me with coming up with the right subject at the perfect timing. Do you know how cool you are?
I always thought that many people in this planet believe that unconditional love does not include romantic relationships in the sense there is “unconditional love” and there is “true love” as more personal relationship. And i find it weird because as you say, love is unconditional. That’s the basic nature of love. However, i must admit i was a kind of person who easily get upset if someone i’m in love with doesn’t respond my expectation. And the thing is it’s not just about romance. I spent far too much time on worrying and being angry about what the people close to me did to me or how to respond their expectation. And it sure killed fun many times. So practically I did not know how to apply love in my life.
But recently i had a feeling that i’m reaching to the point of big realization about relationships. And since then i has got more honest and less worry. and it’s really making a big difference in my relationships. I feel like i’m really doing what really matters to me instead of wasting my time to make up my worry. My new understanding is that everything is defined subjectively. and i’m actually the only one here now in the sense we are all one and i’m the creator of my reality. And i simply thought every kind of relationships must be re-defined this way.
And last night i came across this article and it really made sense to me. That was very smart explanation of what i’m realizing now. And i’m sending it to my friends coz it’s really helpful. Do you mind if I post the link here? if not delete it please:P The article is about the mindsets toward relationships. It talks about how to apply the empowering mindset which increase the quality of our relationships. Check the link for the detail.
http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2006/10/soulful-relationships/
I want to hear what you think about it:)
August 26th, 2008 at 5:46 am
Writer Henri Nouwen defined love as “making a safe place for another person to be fully himself” — and I adore that definition. If you take it to the nth degree, you come to the place you explore, Jeanette… making a safe place for someone to leave you, if that’s how they become fully themselves.
That doesn’t mean it wouldn’t hurt, or you wouldn’t mourn.
Just means you wouldn’t grasp or cling.
Having experienced the end of a long marriage to exactly this situation, I can attest that it ain’t the easiest path in the world. But, if you can get to a place of absolute love — making a safe place for someone else to be fully themselves, even if hurts in the short term to do so — you will find peace and live joyfully. And learn a ton about yourself in the process.
August 26th, 2008 at 5:51 am
Wow, great article, Shunsuke!
I especially liked this part:
Equality - You can feel just as close to total strangers as you do to your friends.
Significance - All relationships are significant; none are irrelevant. Even the strangers you pass on the street are important parts of you.
Love without attachment - Letting go of harmful relationships is easier because you’re still unconditionally connected to everyone else. As you release old relationships that no longer serve you, you’ll attract new ones that are compatible with you.
Thanks for sharing it here! I couldn’t agree more, and it’s inspiring me to be even MORE unconditional with my love of others than I already am.
And YES, Michelle! Well said! It’s not that we wouldn’t mourn or grieve, it’s just that there’s no grasping or clinging! What a beautiful space for love to exist.
Thanks for posting you two!
August 26th, 2008 at 5:58 am
Wow, this is wonderful to see how everyone feels about this HOT topic. I do wonder how much of our beliefs are our own or inherited from our cultural paradigm.
But before I go on, Jeannette can I get Kevin’s number? I saw him on your facebook and wondered who he was–totally hot in those pics with the dogs…:)
Back to topic of focus.
Jeff, my relationships with my house, my gardens, my tress, my ocean, my ravens, my cats, my friend’s dogs, my lovers, my business partners, my ex husbands, my children, my lap top, planets, sun, moon and earth are all the same. Deep, deep love. I make no distinction. The heart is either opened or closed and when it’s open, you love. That’s all.
I find when the heart is open, you really don’t care who does what to whom. You’re open, fulfilled–and yeah, if they can get closer to that with someone else, great.
I know some think that the partner is different because you have needs or commitments but I do not ask anyone to fulfill me. I fulfill my self and love the living daylights out of the world. All of it. No exceptions.
Iyabo, I think we ARE evolved enough to experience love without fear or conditions though one probably needs to step outside of the culture–any culture–to do it. Definitely outside patriarchal models. We are moving into new territory and judging by the response to this post, there is a lot of stampeding going on at the borders!
I think often what people call love in a relationship is really instinct–remnants of fear we have as children that mother won’t care for us and therefore we won’t survive. You heard it when a husband says to his wife, ‘I’ll die if you leave me.’ Well, of course he won’t die. He’s a grown up. He can look after himself. But his survival instinct is caught in his 2 year old child past and that part of him would have died if mother abandoned him on a camping trip. I think it is that part or us that gets jealous, fearful and angry if we think ‘love’ is threatened.
Not quite the same thing as the love I’m talking about, or what I think Jeannette is talking about. How can one’s love ever be threatened?
Thank you for the provocative thoughts Everyone! I’m going to read all this again!
xxx Kim
August 26th, 2008 at 6:15 am
Thank you, Kim! “How can love ever be threatened?” indeed!
I so get it. Thanks for putting words to it for us here!
I’ll be quoting you on these words of wisdom: “The heart is either opened or closed and when it’s open, you love. That’s all.”
It IS that simple, isn’t it? Must be good to be Kim.
And not that my ex hubby isn’t hot, but that’s Verrall my ex boyfriend with the dogs. (I think anyone loving puppies is automatically more attractive.) hee hee
August 26th, 2008 at 6:17 am
Shunsuke,
The article is so LOA–change your mind about relationships and you will experience them differently. The list is very much like Jeannette’s approach to the money vibe. If you think money is hard work….well…guess what? You are going to be working darn hard for your money. And if you think you have to get to know someone over time before you can open up and trust, then that too shall be true!
Thank you for the article.
x Kim
August 26th, 2008 at 6:41 am
Jeanette, you said
Russ deserves more love than I can even imagine … I mean, he went without for a long time, and he deserves a bunch of really good steamy hot make-your-heart-beat-fast love affairs. The kind that keep you up at night and make you screw up at work. Maybe I can only say that as someone who has had her share. lol
Yes, I agree that Russ deserves all this and he can have it with you! It does not require for this to be him and someone else or many other women. You can deliver this to him.
Something feels awry about all this and I am going to step on all your toes. I believe that there is a big difference between dating someone exclusively and taking your relationship to a higher level of commitment through marriage or living together. The point is that you have someone made a formal commitment to focus on each other. Sometimes we do not want the intense focus and love of one person because we did not have it growing up and so we do not know how to mirror that experience as adults or maybe on some level, we do not think we deserve it. Or we do not think it will last or we do not think we could survive if some how that relationship should end.
May I put it out there that we should all consider if that is what is going on.
I do not believe that one on one intimacy is a patriarchal limitation on a relationship. I just believe that it is the most effective way for a relationship to safely have eros, phileo and agape thriving and blossoming.
I love that there is so much talk about this and that we are all working on ourselves by even just writing on this subject.
Yes, I believe we have relationships with everything including our animals. But it is only with our mates that we have the eros kind of love that requires exclusivity.
What I think is that if I find my husband very happy in the company of another woman and that relationship has an eros component to it, if we are both in a mature place, it is time to look at what that information is saying about us together. It might very well be that that woman is a better fit for him which means we should both go our separate ways. I am not going to say that I am the only perfect fit for my husband on the planet. But what is perfect about our relationship is that as rocky as it gets, we made a commitment to allow each other to be our perfect partner. So theoretically at least, the decision has been made. So now let us get on with exploring, safeguarding and developing that perfection.
However, it could also mean that he likes bright new shinny objects and is not putting his attention on his intimate relationship with me and so we get to work on why. He may be running away from the ease of working on a relationship that you know and want. He may be thinking that is hard work. He may be reacting to the fact that I have been busy and I am the one that actually pushed him away with my actions. Or something like that.
He may be turning away because his relationship with me is getting to the point that he has to look at himself more deeply. Genuinely intimate phileo, agape and eros relationships require you to deal with your own limiting beliefs at some point. He may be trying to avoid doing that.
So does it mean that he has more happiness with someone else? Maybe and maybe not.
However, his primary intimate relationship cannot grow while his intention is on another woman.
If I met a guy today and I became interested or stimulated by him, I am not going to just go off and have hot steamy sex with him and try and spend as much of my time with him. No. As tempting as that may be, the situation tells me that either, I am enjoying being distracted or that something is awry in my primary relationship and I need to regroup and refocus. It does not meant that there is someone out there better for me.
And the end of the day, the truth is that the only person out there that is better for me is myself.
Iyabo
www.AuthenticChangeAgent.com
August 26th, 2008 at 7:15 am
If your partner wants to have sex with someone else, you are absolutely right, Lyabo, it could mean many things. Affairs are often a flight from intimacy rather than a rush toward it. Affairs are often more about the ego of the person having the affair than the state of the marriage. Affairs are often a fantasy, while ‘real life’ is… all too real. Affairs can be a wake-up call for a relationship, or its death knell.
All you can do if you find yourself with an unfaithful (or a wishing-to-be-unfaithful) partner is be present in the moment and honest about your own feelings and needs.
I just want to point out that the parent-child relationship is often fraught with the same tension, esp. when a child goes off to college or gets married. It takes a generous heart and unconditional love to watch your child “leave” — hence empty nest anxiety — but… I know that my job as a parent is to allow my child to separate and forge his or her own life. There is deep and abiding joy in that letting go — if you allow it.
Same thing can happen with a former partner, believe it or not.
August 26th, 2008 at 7:50 am
Iyabo, I am clear that there is not only that POTENTIAL for Russ to love me that way, but that’s what we’re doing. It’s not that I don’t feel worthy or believe someone else could do it better. I’m not wishing some other woman on him.
I also know that to keep him from following his heart, wherever that might take him (whether it’s Albuquerque, the golf course, or Hooters) would be a disservice to both of us. He knows what his heart calls for, not me.
And I wouldn’t want him to stay out of a sense of obligation or due to some commitment that he grew out of.
Same as I wouldn’t wish that on ANYONE I loved. Myself included.
And Michele, once again I agree that all there is to do in the situation of discovering there’s three lovers at this party is to be present to and honor our own feelings and needs.
This comment from you made me say “Amen!” out loud: “Same thing can happen with a former partner, believe it or not.”
Thanks for sharing your insights, Iyabo and Michele!
August 26th, 2008 at 7:54 am
Wow. You never fail to amaze me with these posts (and I read a LOT of blogs).
I’m in the middle of a cold-war with my complicated sweetheart. We’ve struggled and struggled and while there is so much good, there is an awful lot of really hard work bc of general differences. I generally TRY (and fail and fail and fail) to live from this place of love which has taken me this far. I guess my question (which I don’t expect an answer to) is how to unconditionally love someone (AND YOURSELF) and let them go if it is the right thing to do.
Certainly they won’t see it that way…
Food for thought. I always know a great love concept because my heart (the organ) always feels expanded in my chest when I read it.
Thanks to you Foster Mama!
August 26th, 2008 at 8:09 am
Thanks for this, Kelly:
“how to unconditionally love someone (AND YOURSELF) and let them go if it is the right thing to do.”
I love your recognition that it’s important to love ourselves unconditionally as well. And how to do it is a good question.
What I suggest to my clients is that they recognize where in their lives they are flowing unconditional love to someone or something, and start flowing that same stuff to this other person (or self).
Martha Beck told me to love my boyfriend like my dogs do. (I was upset that he had steak or something on our anniversary - I know, Russ, I might have those details wrong - all I remember is that Martha said, “Would your dogs care what he ate for dinner?” Obviously not. “Then you don’t either!”) Seems pretty simple.
I use an imaginary daughter or an orphan kitten as my template for unconditional love. And when I touch base with that, I’m in the vibe of unconditional love and can flow it to others as well.
You also said, “Certainly they won’t see it that way… “
Good point. They likely won’t. And that’s their business. They get to make up any story they want to around it, and they get to feel however they want to.
And that can’t stop us from doing what we know is true to our loving hearts.
Or it can. lol But the point is we get to choose. That’s ALL we get to choose - since we can’t pick how to make them feel.
Good question and thoughtful comments. Thanks, Kelly!
“
August 26th, 2008 at 8:16 am
This post is to Anna:
VERY BRAVE. I think it is interesting to see the different paths those commenting are on…less evolved, more evolved? Who am I to say?
Without a doubt, romantic love was the rubiks cube the Universe/God gave us to work over and over again often with little clarity or understanding because when we are IN IT, so little makes sense sometimes and we struggle with acting out of our BIG selves and our wee little selves-back and forth.
All I can say is I know we are all either purposefully or inadvertently manifesting what we expect…right?
August 26th, 2008 at 8:46 am
OK Kim, Love is unconditional. But relationships are not. A Course in Miracles teaches to love everyone and everything because that is what we are. But human relationships are conditional upon certain things and each individual gets to decide what those conditions are.
For example, I will not be in a relationship with someone who is a terrorist that likes to beat up his grandmother and kill puppies. That’s a condition. I chooses the people who get to be a part of my life and I choose wisely because I know the impact that those people will have on my life.
So you can love everyone and everything at the same level but your involvement in a relationship with everyone and everything has to be conditional upon certain things and there will be different levels of relationships.
August 26th, 2008 at 8:48 am
Indeed. Just because we love someone doesn’t mean we’re going to sleep in their bed and bear their children and let them cook us dinner every night.
August 26th, 2008 at 8:52 am
What a great post!
Love truly is unconditional and it is the ultimate love to want what is best for the other person without regard to yourself.
It doesn’t mean it would be easy, or you would not have emotions over it.
I believe a lot of this comes down to how we feel about ourselves. ie: Are we enough. When you see the way the pet reacts to the groomer or the way your mate is with his buddies or other women, if they don’t react that way with us, then we can have feelings around that.
Although marriage is a union of commitment, no one person can possibly be everything another person needs. And, as we are unique, distinct beings, we will grow and evolve in different ways. It is possible to wake up one morning and realize you are living with a stranger.
One thing that came thru from your post was the excitement that you’re seeing. It is that excitement and interest that is electric - that is the feeling that we all want - and are drawn to.
Remember when you were first dating? How you couldn’t get enough of each other, couldn’t wait to talk with each other and couldn’t think of much else when you weren’t together?
That’s passion. As time goes on, it’s easy to love, but not be in love.
So, what happens and what can you do about it?
First and foremost, you have to take care of the relationship with yourself. If you are not caring for you on all pertinent levels, the value you bring to the relationship diminishes.
You have to be clear and focused on what you want. ie: If you want a close, committed, connected relationship with love, desire, passion and intimacy, are you focused on that?
And, you have to communicate. What does your other half really want? Are they able to share at the deepest level what their desires are? Or their fears? Can you share about what is on your mind or what you want from your relationship?
None of us are mind readers and just waiting for the other half to ‘get it’ or ‘figure it out’ may not be an optimal strategy.
It is all about being in the moment and trusting that all will unfold as it should, from the space that you are in. And, knowing that there is only so much you actually have control over.
If you’re not fully being you - who are you being?
Be great
Mark Semple CCC
August 26th, 2008 at 9:46 am
Mark, you hit the nail on the head for me here:
“I believe a lot of this comes down to how we feel about ourselves. ie: Are we enough.”
In fact, I believe it’s my self-love work that has made unconditional love of others much more natural and likely.
Not that I’ve got it all figured out by any means - but I think that’s what has made the difference for me over the years. Loving myself. Knowing I’m enough. Complete. Whole. Worthy. Already. Automatically. As is. Always. Right now.
Man, that’s just delicious knowledge right there.
Thanks for posting, Mark!
August 26th, 2008 at 10:03 am
I have to say that I’m struck by one thought and invite consideration that perhaps the primary post is more about creating the space to allow ourselves to love ourselves unconditionally?
Jeanette wrote, “The question is, would I do the same for Russ?”…Would the postings have been different if the question raised would have stated, “would I do the same for Me?”
Perhaps using our relationship with others lets us take stock in how we are supporting our own value systems, our own expectations and dreams. Where in our own lives are we suppressing ourselves from driving us to or asking for a ride so we can be encouraged to indulge in something that captures our own heart.
August 26th, 2008 at 10:49 am
Sherry, I LOVE the inquiry you’re taking us to!!
I got goose bumps reading it!
I have to admit, as I’m talking about how easily I would let Russ go follow his heart, if it were to take him away from me, I wondered if I would give myself that same gift?
It IS more an opportunity to love ourselves even more than we already do, isn’t it? Or an invitation to, at least.
I’ll be reflecting on your comments over the upcoming days and weeks, Sherry. Thank you for igniting that inspiration within me. I see my opportunity for growth there.
August 26th, 2008 at 10:55 am
omgosh! Jeannnette! Thanks so much for coming to get me for this conversation on love! (i’ve since set you up on my igoogle page-never to miss a delish conversation again)
This is my favorite conversation-love. I’m a love coach-this is how I spend my life-exploring the nooks and crannies of love so that I can help translate and create the possibilities w/ others.
These days, I see myself as leaning into love like an olympic ski jumper-you know, the ones who lean in so far they look like they might tumble over in mid air?
My ski jumper self has found amazing love with a woman who is in a 16 year relationship and lives more than 2,000 miles away! I don’t identify as polyamorous. These are not the details I imagined. Yet, these details take me exactly where I want to be, better than I ever imagined.
I love that I get to dive solely into love. I feel completely free with her to make it up as we go. I get to find where my attachments and fears related to love and release them. I really get to see how love is love and sex is a decision that I make to add into the mix or not.
At the core, we get to make decisions about how we support and expand our love in the context of our lives. This is way fun!!!
We can all dive solely into love, yes? Even as you decide who pays the bills and takes out the trash, yes? We get to make it up as we go whether love is new and fresh or is certified or 20 years old, yes?
It is knowing we are so safe and secure that we get to put love first.
Whew!
August 26th, 2008 at 11:51 am
Judy, I love how you make it up! You’re a perfect example of how we can be courageous enough to let go of what it’s “supposed” to look like and lean into wherever our hearts take us.
I knew your thoughts here would be valuable. Thanks for joining the discussion!
And give us a LINK next time, please! lol Love you, girlfriend.
August 26th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
Great discussion.
Here’s my take:
Everything is not the same. I create distinctions, and then, there are distinctions. I say so.
We all create distinctions about things: or rather, about what we think and feel about things. Which are the same thing. (I just created a distinction there. And took it away) Distinctions, as thoughts, give us leverage. They also give us the Infinite to experience.
Love is a choice. Because, Love is an action. Not a state. Not a feeling. Not an idea.
My Love is my Life Energy Intentionally in the Action of Blessing.
So, for me, Love is intentional. I do not Love things. They can bring me Joy, though. Cuz I let them. Ok … sometimes I don’t. LOL. What I mean is that I do not ‘DO’ love to things.
New distinction: The Living.
I Love the Living. Actually, I LOVE the Living.
And the Living that Love me back get to be in a Loving Relationship with me.
For me, the kind of relationship you are describing, Jeanette, requires some distinctions to thrive and grow. Fidelity. Dedication. Intimacy. Presentness. Forgiveness. There is exclusivity there. It is my experience that these things create the kind of relationship that really serves Me. And stokes the Love I feel for others. Sure, we give up something. We always give up many things when we choose something in particular. It is in the nature of choice and intention.
The kind of Love you are describing, and I Love, does not require distinctions. It is unconditional.
So, I would Love someone who decided to deepen relationship intimacy with someone else. But, whether I stayed in the relationship depends on the quality of the Fidelity, Dedication, Intimacy, Presentness and Forgiveness and the exclusivity of ours.
Is their Heart still in THIS relationship? Is their Intention? Has an agreed boundary been irrevocably crossed? Have we the courage to reframe ‘irrevocably’?
And no, I would not drive her there. LOL.
Thank you for generating such an awesome conversation. I hope that I have been clear enough.
Know Joy.
Rick
August 26th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
Boni?! You wouldn’t drive BONI there, Rick? I think you underestimate yourself.
August 26th, 2008 at 12:26 pm
ahhhh, Rick, as I read your post, the word fidelity reminded me of one of my favorite quotes. . .
it’s having a certain fidelity to what you realize yourself to be. Having a fidelity to that internal silence, and just being willing to be what you are.
At any moment, am I actually an expression of - am I actually being - what I know to be true? It’s another one of those things that sounds very simple, until you might be by yourself, or especially where the spiritual rubber hits the road, which is in relationship — am I actually being what I know myself to be? Am I expressing what’s really true?” — Adyashanti
Jeannette, I love that your foster cat only knows fidelity to her soul-she’s such a great teacher.
Can you imagine love that is nourished as each person brings a fidelity to their own spirit? WOW! That’s my kind of relationship!
August 26th, 2008 at 12:52 pm
That is a great quote, Judy.
So, fidelity IS a powerful choice, a powerful tool for being present.
But, Love IS nourished as each person brings a fidelity to their own spirit …. I guess what I am saying is that there is also a power in lovingly giving this fidelity to another. Fidelity in a relationship is something given by each, not expected.
And it must be true gift, just as one would to oneself. Not everyone’s way, but one that resonates in me.
Thank you for your insight.
August 26th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
Fully being you - oh I like that Mark. These last few posts give me hope. I feel uncomfortable with the concept of dictating a relationship and insisting a mate act a certain way. I much rather prefer the concept that has been suggested of fidelity and devotion in the moment! It seems that more empowering and real.
And as far as judging a relationship with an animal as not being as “important” oh plez. Why do we do this? Separate and segment our lives? Make one more important or better? The relationship with our partner is THE one, I just think that is so narrow. I think we evolve with more expression of love in all it’s forms and it’s all good!!!!!!
Love Leslie
August 26th, 2008 at 1:45 pm
I’m echoing that, Leslie! Here’s to evolving with more expression of love in all its forms!
Thanks for bringing your beautiful light energy to this discussion, Leslie.
August 26th, 2008 at 1:53 pm
WOW! What a powerful post. I absolutely agree. This has been one of my sticky spots in the past and I’m currently in the process of reprogramming my thinking on it. (Just because he’s happy without me doesn’t mean he’s not happy WITH me) and (Him being happy outside my presence doesn’t take away any joy from MY moment unless I allow it).
One of my favorite songs is Alanis Morissette, You Owe Me Nothing in Return. It’s a very powerful song about this very thing.
Another great post Jeannette! Kudos!
El Baugher
TheSmilingSpirit.com
August 26th, 2008 at 2:01 pm
Kudos to you, El, for reprogramming the thinking!
Thanks for the song tip - I’m off to check it out now!
August 26th, 2008 at 2:12 pm
hey Leslie, did I read something wrong? I don’t recall anyone here saying that one was more important or better than the other… just that they are different. But if you want to go there then I’d have to say the relationship with yourself is the most important.
August 26th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
Well, sure. ‘Cause if you can’t live with yourself, you have to spring for another apartment. And who can afford that these days? :^D
But seriously, this is even more of a tidal wave of perceptive thought than I had predicted. Rick, Mark, Kelly, Kim (as ever), and more, so insightful! And Iyabo: Wow, and wow! You say things that fit like puzzle pieces I couldn’t find before. Very happy to make your acquaintance!
August 26th, 2008 at 4:47 pm
I must have gotten Kevin and Verrall mixed up…you have so many hot guys in that photo album! lol I love it.
Verrall’s phone number then, please…oh, and Kevin’s too!
I am so loving this discussion!
xxx Kim
August 26th, 2008 at 8:29 pm
Jeanette,
Here are my thoughts. And I am purposely not reading anyone else’s comments (beyond the first dozen or so I read!) because I want to stay true to what YOU are sharing. Besides, 54 comments?? Hello!?!? LOL
So… first the animal example is of course your frame of reference, being the animal lover that you are. So I have no problem with that… I love that they are providing this inquiry for you.
My question for you about whether or not you’d give Russ the same treatment is:
I don’t know, Jeanette, would you? (Have you asked YOU?)
And how could you even know what that would be like if it’s not happening right now? Can you predict the future?
Also, do you have the belief that you “should” treat him the same way? (If so, I would question that… call me…)
One thought is that you have ’stewardship’ over your animals - more like a parent-child dynamic. Very different with a human companion, at least in my experience. You don’t have ’stewardship’ over Russ in the same sense, at least as far as I know. LOL
In theory, the best kind of love is unconditional. And relationships - committed ones - have much more to them than love. (I only WISH it was that simple! LOL) But unconditional love for your human partner may not be reality for you, or me, or lots of other people. I don’t see that as a problem either. We are all doing the best we can. It’s not a prerequisite for a relationship. Unconditional love is a place to strive for…to work towards… but you can’t ignore where you happen to be right now spiritually.
Having ACTUALLY dealt with this situation myself, I’ll share what was true for me:
I would never want to be with someone who didn’t want to be with me. He was truly, truly, truly convinced that the grass is greener somewhere else, and I was certainly sad, but I released him with my blessing in hopes that he could find the happiness or fulfillment or whatever it was he was seeking. And it felt like the most loving, kind, empowering thing I have ever done - amazing and bittersweet. I saw that I don’t ever have to stop loving him. I just urged him to take the time to sort it out first… because if he leaves only to find he’s made a big mistake, I can’t promise I’ll still be there waiting. I don’t think he expected such a loving response…. he expected rage and fury and jealousy and all that crap. Such an open, loving, willing reaction made it really hard for him to leave! In fact, he’s still around. Last time I checked he was upstairs putting our 2-year-old son to sleep
Bottom line: I think this kind of speculation, though wonderful, is putting the cart before the horse - or living beyond your own current spiritual evolution. As if it’s true that we are supposed to be unconditionally loving. Ideally, yes, but are you, right now?
The only way to find out how you would actually feel - which is very different from how you think you SHOULD feel - is to be IN the situation and see how it goes. (Otherwise it’s sheer speculation.) Then you’ll know where you are and thus, what’s next for you.
I hope I’m not missing the point…
xoxo
Rebecca Overson
August 26th, 2008 at 8:34 pm
So… I must say in this lengthy discussion I didn’t find anything (unless I missed it of course) simply related to what we vibrate! After all… Wink.
Everything is energy.
If we are in vibrational alignment with our sweetie… than we are. If we are not, we’re not.
If what we want is different than what is… there’s a kink in the energy somewhere. right?
It is all merely a reflection of our own inner world, and there to help us “see”… and as such how much we love ourselves (as I read here as well)!!
Wow!! So exciting.
So why does it not just come down to energy? So if you value committment and loyalty… and your partner goes off with another, then well, that is obviously out of alignment with you. So in a way, it only gives you the freedom to allow to come into your life that which IS in alignment by letting go and being happy for the other…
if I said that in a way that makes sense.
My sister ended her 10 year marriage… the whole divorce process was under 30 days- agreed on everything there was to decide about then went out to celebrate together with drinks and dinner. They began setting each other up on dates with others.
So… I think we KNOW when we are no longer in vibrational alignment and the time comes to move on… if we are paying attention. We are actually creating it as we go, so we are opening up to allow more love into our lives by vibrating love either way…
And yes, I must say, I also wonder how I can love others as much as I love my dog and she loves me!! I truly feel as though we have a spiritual “committment” to provide for each other. I mean, if my dog and I were not in vibrational alignment, she would be in another’s home… so we support each other- just intuitively and with less complications!!!
I agree that Jeanette has such great topics and posts!! Thanks so much!!
August 26th, 2008 at 9:00 pm
Good point, Jessica! It’s all happening in response to the vibration.
And whereas we can manage our own, we aren’t in charge of anyone else’s.
Everything that happens IS a reflection of our inner world. Thus a reflection of our own self love.
(We may take flak for that, but I’m in complete agreement.) Thanks for pointing it out.
I love your sister’s experience! That probably happens more often than most would guess.
Thanks for posting, Jessica!
August 26th, 2008 at 10:37 pm
Very, very interesting Rebecca! I will keep your experience and how you dealt with it in mind. Awesome, how you handled your situation. It takes a very mature, self-confident and loving person to deal with a situation like yours with such grace!
August 26th, 2008 at 11:28 pm
I love my husband, and if he felt he’d be more fulfilled with someone else, I would certainly let him go without injecting my own crises into the situation.
Because, well, I love him.
But the fact is, as much as I care about the man, the thing I’d love even MORE is someone who found his love-fulfillment in me, and only me. So in a sense, *I* would be the one leaving, to find someone whose love vibe resonated better with my own.
Interesting stuff, all!
August 26th, 2008 at 11:30 pm
Well said, Margaret!
August 26th, 2008 at 11:33 pm
whew!
All this talk about love!
Seems clear to me that our souls know that love, for love’s sake, is as basic to life as breathing. Why else would we be stirred so strongly by Jeannette’s question, yes?
The range of opinions and passion for love expressed here is inspiring.
wishing much fun, love and possibilities to all,
Judy
www.dreamandflourish.com
August 27th, 2008 at 12:07 am
I love Kims line about your heart is either open or its not when it’s open you love it’s that simple… Wow Incredible!
I have actually considered this post idea before and I think that loving someone, really loving them means that you want what is best for them. Their highest good to be served whether or not it is with you. Of course when we are with them we want it to be us. However, just as someone brought up on one of the later comments if it’s time to move on you just open the space for new love to come in.
In the end it is all about ourselves because any relationship we have with anyone is all in our own mind.
Susie or Billy doesn’t ‘make us happy’ or ‘make us mad’ it is merely our thoughts or reaction to their actions that creates the happy feelings or mad feelings.
All the fretting and worrying about the details and what is right or wrong when it is all right and going according to plan. Whatever happens does so for us to see, experience, learn from and extract the joy! There is always something good inside every seemingly non good happening.
At least in my world!!
=)
It’s All Good~
August 27th, 2008 at 12:30 am
Hey Jeanette, if you are talking about Law of Attraction, by thinking of the possibility that your partner will fall for another woman, you may be setting up the stage for that.
August 27th, 2008 at 7:51 am
Someone else mentioned that as well, Sarah, and it may be because I have no fear of that that the possibility didn’t stop me from writing about it.
Having said THAT, you can believe that I’ve been very clear with Russ over the last couple days in making sure he knows how much I love and appreciate him, and wouldn’t wish him away. Just to make sure Universe and Russ also hear how much I enjoy him in my life.
In fact, because he said this perspective I have makes him feel like I don’t care about him, I’ve found new ways to make sure he DOES know I care. (Like not staying up all night answering blog comments. ha)
So I’d say this post actually has strengthened our relationship.
Doncha love how this all works?! lol All for the best! Everything works out perfectly!
I was also thinking how missing tabby has stirred many hearts, and that was a pretty good mission he was on, huh?
At least, that thought feels good to me. So I go with it.
Thanks for posting, Sarah!
August 27th, 2008 at 7:52 am
And with that, I am ready to stop calling him missing tabby and give him a new reference. Maybe I’ll call him the Love Tabby.
August 27th, 2008 at 9:53 am
Now that is fun, what can you call this catalyst tabby?
“Count” as in let me count the ways I love you.
“Rocket” as in love is as simple as rocket science.
XXOOLeslie
August 27th, 2008 at 9:57 am
Hmmmm. Jeannette, have you any picture(s) handy of the cat-alyst?
August 27th, 2008 at 9:58 am
I’m remimded of what Abraham wrote in the Astonishing Power of Emotions. One of the situations was a woman whose husband walked out on her. Abraham said the actual thing that happened wasn’t what made her so upset but that her attention was not focussed on what was in her vibrational escow (her ideal relationship) so Who She Really Is sent her the negative emotions letting her know she wasn’t focussed on her vibrational escrow that had now improved by more asking because of this incident. Once getting herself aligned and therefore feeling good the relationship that she seeks can come to her (WHOEVER THE FACE IS BEHIND IT). The outcome would be that her husband can then flow back into her life or another person to match what’s in her vibration.
The point I want to make is that Abe was saying that the type of relationship she wants, whoever the face behind it is, and that her attention was off that, in this case through her observation, caused the pain. So its fully ok to desire a relationship thats exclusive and the fuss about it in all these comments is because we are taking our attention off what we would want. We can desire anything. Also Abraham picked this situation for the book! Without saying she wasn’t truely loving him! As they teach there is nothing that you cannot be do or have so Abraham is and we should all be allowing of all types of views and relationships.
August 27th, 2008 at 10:02 am
Thank you, Leslie and John, for helping me embrace new thoughts of my foster kitty! I updated the post to include his photo.
James, thanks for sharing those words from Abraham. I love the reminder of Who We Really Are.
Your last sentence hit home nicely with me. Thank you for that!
August 27th, 2008 at 10:09 am
Re: broken trust, I read something from Neale Donald Walsche recently that made me think:
“If you are wondering whether you can “trust” someone,
look closely at what it is you think you need or want from them. When you need or want nothing, trust is not an issue.”
So true. If I didn’t “need” love or attention or appreciation from my girlfriend/wife/partner, trust wouldn’t be an issue.
August 27th, 2008 at 10:44 am
Amen to that, Jeffrey. I got goose bumps reading it!
I hope everyone else reads through to this comment (as well as many others); this is big wisdom here!
Thanks for reading and for posting, Jeffrey!
August 27th, 2008 at 10:58 am
In addition to the great comments posted here, I’m getting a handful to my personal inbox.
Here’s one I wanted to share:
Jeannette…..I wanted to send you this link after reading your blog on love. Thought it might interest you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyamory
Pretty interesting read - thanks for introducing me to the word, Judy, and thanks to the reader who emailed the link! I’m seeing myself described there in a variety of ways.
August 27th, 2008 at 11:07 am
I love Abe’s take on love, James.
Abe rattles my bones w/ their “I like you pretty good, let’s see how it goes” approach to love. Talk about fidelity to your soul!
I remember making an “i’ll be here forever” agreement with my (now ex) partner of 9 years. Looking back, I’m amazed how keenly I stayed emotionally close, yet far away to meet that agreement. I wasn’t happy, but that wasn’t my goal.
Presently, I’m really curious about love- What happens if my commitment is about integrity, happiness, leaning into myself, supporting her to lean into herself. So, far, so good. We are both accessing more of ourselves than ever before. Things stay fun, easy and expansive.
I love that, in this relationship, my mind has to catch up w/ what feels completely right in my heart and body. Talk about keeping me honest, and engaged!
Judy
www.dreamandflourish.com
August 27th, 2008 at 12:08 pm
Love the Abe quote, Judy! In fact, I practice that regularly. (Staying free from contracts and promises that my feel good might give me new direction on further down the road.) I like how you point out THAT is fidelity to one’s soul!
Nicely said.
August 27th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
Finally remembered what one of the threads of thought here reminded me of. Lyrics added to the song Roxanne, for the movie Moulin Rouge:
You’re free to leave me, but just don’t deceive me
And please believe me when I say I love you
August 27th, 2008 at 4:32 pm
Nice lyrics, John. I like the freedom that concept brings to the relationship.
Today at lunch my dad shared a chorus that this post reminded him of, too:
“What’s the point of living if you can’t have any fun ..
What’s the point of loving if you can’t love everyone.”
August 27th, 2008 at 4:44 pm
You know…I tend to agree with Lyabo on one thing….
True intimacy has to have safety. Part of safety is knowing that both of you are in a wonderful cocoon all by yourselves.
However…..I do LOVE, LOVE, LOVE my pets! ha! I don’t view my love for them much different than humans!
Much Love!
Teena
August 27th, 2008 at 5:49 pm
Jeannette,
I am friends with my Ex-husband, his girlfriends, fiances, or wives. I have always welcomed them. My best friends think I’m absolutely nuts for my association. They don’t understand how I can hang out with the Ex-husbands girlfriend and have a girls night out. When I say I love you I truly mean it. “Together or not”
I accept them where ever they may be in life.
Love to all,
Keshia
August 27th, 2008 at 7:23 pm
I love my dogs.They are a part of my family, they never give attitude they are always happy, and best of all they love unconditionally.They make me happy when I am down. As for my husband he has alot of attitude. i am not always happy with him we love each other and trust each other and most of all resect each other but lets face it dogs don’t talk back.
August 27th, 2008 at 8:35 pm
Thanks for making me feel less lonely with this perspective, Keshia! Power to the lovers! lol
And Tilly - the truth in your words is making me laugh out loud!
I mean, how many people do we know who really shower us with unconditional love the way our dogs do? ha! (Although from many of the comments to this post, I can tell there are more than I would have guessed.)
Thank you for that, everyone!
August 27th, 2008 at 8:39 pm
It occured to me how “lucky” I am! Funny how it took this discussion and that I hadn’t shared this earlier on.
In any case, throughout my life, my parents, even though not together, help each other and were genuine… my mom loves my step mom, and mom and I even went to My Dad’s and step mother’s house for Thanksgiving before!
Additionally, these types of relationships and accepting are all around me!! How fabulous. My maternal grandparents are divorced (he cheated on her) yet, they are friends. He would see her everyday where she worked, and also his wife. Now that her husband has passed, her ex-husband and wife went to her house to shovel snow and help out!! While she invited them in for snacks!! Oh wait, it gets better. My maternal gram and my paternal gram stayed friends and saw each other every week. I could have MY WHOLE family together even though everyone is divorced, remarried, etc…
Wow. How cool is that. I mean, I always thought of myself as very open and accepting, perhaps this is why!
I’ve been friends with many of my ex’s. It is so wonderful and I so appreciate the time we did have together and respect the time that we are no longer. Once I even told my boyfriend to go out into the world and meet some more women! I mean, he never had the experiences I had, and I could tell that he was curious what was out there for him to experience but at the same time was happy with me. It took me realizing he needed to venture out, almost in a motherly way, I encouraged him. He knew it was out of pure love and willingness to do what was best for him. It all turned out good, as he was gone maybe a week tops, and didn’t need to find anything in order to be content with me… so back he came, because of my willingness to let go in order for him to be happy!
Anyhow, I just wanted to share some more happy experiences! Thanks.
August 27th, 2008 at 9:45 pm
Now THAT’S some nice examples of true love, Jessica!
Thanks for sharing them!
(I am learning that using the phrases unconditional and true in front of love is just redundant - but it still seemed appropriate here.)
Love your post - and your style, Jessica!
August 27th, 2008 at 9:55 pm
Tilly,
So true I love my Pom Miles Davis and he definitely doesn’t talk back. But does chewing underpants, socks, and getting into the rubbish count for attitude.
I believe through this discussion the Universe has revealed to all of us our boundaries and limitations concerning matters of the heart. Thank you Love Tabby!
Love to All,
Keshia
August 27th, 2008 at 10:26 pm
And as we believe, so it is! I’m joining with you in that belief, Keshia. A beautiful one it is!
August 27th, 2008 at 11:29 pm
I’m with you, Keshia. Love Tabby (so gorgeous) may have had a duel purpose in wandering into someone else’s heart. To fulfill a promise, perhaps, and to instigate in us all a clear and courageous look at our thoughts of love.
Thank you LoveTabby, and thank you everyone. I have read and appreciated every thought!
Jeannette, I’m wondering if Abe’s toaster metaphor might apply. Most of our comments seem to be talking about the toaster’s relationship to the bread. Do you know what I mean?
Love and electricity to you all!
x Kim
August 27th, 2008 at 11:35 pm
Kim, I’m getting a lot of comfort and warm fuzzies from these words. Thank you!!!
August 28th, 2008 at 5:15 am
reading through your post, Jeanette, and all of everyone’s comments - a very humbling experience.
the issue is quite confronting - I’m constantly challenged to overcome conditioning in order to get to the unconditional part of LOVE. Its not ‘good television’ to have the main protagonist say ‘I love you so I want you to do what you want to do’ - it usually goes ‘If you love me you’ll do what I want you to, and promise me to keep on doing it forever and ever’…
Its SO easy to love freely with my children (and they most definitely do talk back, thank god/dess) and yet the story of ‘the love relationship’ (how it ’should be’) is very ingrained (and not in a positive way, so consequently I’m not partnered with anyone but myself right now).
There are plenty of moments I don’t feel aligned, connected, or anywhere near ‘evolved’ enough to consistently deal lovingly with the guys I have ties too - I still get angry, frustrated and constellate all those unwanted emotions - necessitating full focus on the process of dealing with these (and I’m determined to work through them and release them). Telling myself that these emotions are like storms that cleanse and pass help, particularly with the manifesting aspect, as does keeping in mind the words ‘only love is real’.
August 28th, 2008 at 5:19 am
oh, I clicked on the submit button before I meant too…
anyway, not much else to say except - Kim, tell me, please - how does the toaster metaphor go? all manner of images are being conjured here!
d
August 28th, 2008 at 6:19 am
Holy hannah. !! I had a dream this morning that my orange tabby came home (the one who was properly adopted before I left town last week), and that Buddha came over too (that’s my ex-beau’s gorgeous long haired male black cat). I really like both those cats! And that I made friends with a wild llama. Weird.
After Joe woke me up (which he never does - he sleeps in past EVERYONE), as we were walking downstairs I told the dogs about my dream and I said “Maybe someone came home last night, huh?, like they did in my dream?” (I’ve been leaving the back door open in case someone wanted to, unbeknownst to Russ, who might not approve.)
AnyWAY - guess who I saw on the basement stairs this morning?!?! No, not Love Tabby, but the FIRST cat who left me - the feral Siamese foster!! Good News group readers will remember how excited I was when she let me pet her (which she would only do after being with me for months and with her back turned to me). She’s really quite wild. (I tamed her kittens and adopted them all out back at my other house.)
But she’s in my basement now!!! (She snuck out with the dogs one day, and although she used to easily pop back in, one day she must not have. Haven’t seen her in months. Till now!)
I’m sure the “come home energy” I’ve been feeling (and maybe you have too) must have called her back. Either that, or it’s starting to get cold. lol
Or both!
This is a good start, I’d say. Really good start to my improved vibration about Love Tabby and what he’s up to. If feral Siamese is okay, surely HE is too!
Of course they’re all okay, I know how silly it is of me to ever worry about them.
They’re giving me good opportunity and practice to not do so! ha!
Danae, that’s a good partnership if you ask me.
(You with yourself.)
Your words reminded me of something else my dad said yesterday. He’d heard before that when most people say “I love you” they really mean “I trade you.” Meaning, I’ll trade you THIS in exchange for what you trade me. Kind of like we’ve got an assumed deal going and as soon as you stop, the deal’s off. Which, as some of us here believe, isn’t what love looks like.
I also like to remember Byron Katie’s words that no one is more “evolved” than another. We’re all equal, there’s no better than or worse than. And it’s all perfect.
Kinda takes the pressure off, huh?
Thanks for posting, Danae!
August 28th, 2008 at 6:53 am
“Love is misunderstood to be an emotion;
actually, it is a state of awareness, a way of being
in the world, a way of seeing oneself and others.”
— David Hawkins: Internationally renowned psychiatrist, physician, researcher
August 28th, 2008 at 8:23 am
Nice quote, Iyabo!
I also like the quotes that say Love is who we are. It’s our natural state of being. And when we are feeling/being Love, it’s just that we are being more our true selves.
August 28th, 2008 at 8:48 am
I have to say of all the great and amazing things that everyone has written your Dad’s jingle has delighted me the most. And the I trade you analogy is fascinating. I am glad you share what he says to you. Good girl! Clever Maws.
And I love your dream, we can do such amazing healing work through our dreams, along with open doors. Lol
Love Leslie
August 28th, 2008 at 9:02 am
Thanks for saying so, Leslie.
You know what I especially like about the “I trade you” concept? It’s that even while understanding that’s likely the approach Russ has with me in our relationship, that that belief doesn’t change the way I feel about him. I don’t love him any less for knowing that he would not only never DRIVE me anywhere, he might .. well, that is a visual I WON’T give energy to. lol
Hope that makes Paul and Sarah proud of where I wouldn’t go. hee hee
August 28th, 2008 at 9:06 am
I too like the “I trade you” comment. I have felt this from people numerous times- as though I had to act in one particular way in order to be loved. Love is just love, if it is conditional, then it isn’t love.
Liking someone or having preference is another story altogether. We can love someone but not like them or not like how they are acting. It is preference…
So yeah, trading describes it (for some)… but certainly my definition of love is expressed as freedom- freedom to express yourself, to be yourself, to follow your heart, to have preferences that differ from mine, to just “live” freely.
How else do we fall “out” of love? I mean, isn’t it more about no longer having the same agreements/trades? The love is still there…but doesn’t necessarily mean we are happy due to preference. The love is masked as we see what we don’t “like”.
hmmm… such interesting points and posts. I love it!
August 28th, 2008 at 9:22 am
Indeed, Jessica, how DOES one fall out of love?!
Well put.
August 28th, 2008 at 9:38 am
I woke up this morning, set down w/ my coffee and had a blast reading all of the new posts.
Can I confess that I keep thinking this fab conversation will stop (AKA leave)? And, I don’t want it to? lol
It stirred up a desire to start my morning with conversations about love. I think I probably do this more than I know-using the broad definition of love as an approach to life.
hmmmm, how will I enjoy love today? I like that.
starting here, with a smile,
Judy
www.dreamandflourish.com
August 28th, 2008 at 9:46 am
Judy, you are too funny!! lol
LOVED your newsletter today, by the way!
August 28th, 2008 at 9:47 am
Interesting points, in here. As usual, I’m reminded of a line from a book. In this case, Proginoskes the cherubim (yes, I know that’s plural), in Madeline L’Engle’s A Wind In The Door:
“What a strange idea. Love isn’t feeling… Love isn’t how you feel. It’s what you do.”
Don’t forget, my friends: First and foremost, love is a verb.
August 28th, 2008 at 10:24 am
I forgot to add: both Jeannette’s dad’s chorus and Iyabo’s quote are great! Very very insightful.
August 28th, 2008 at 10:30 am
Hmm, you’ve got me wondering about the verb form of love, John. If love is a way of being - as in who we ARE - then maybe it’s not only what we do but even more so who we be.
This is getting a little esoteric for me, though - ha! My abstract skills can’t keep up.
August 28th, 2008 at 10:50 am
Really loving this discussion. In my own experience when I’ve been able to let someone go with love in my heart and a sincere desire for their happiness I have felt much better about it and have been able to move forward in my own life much more quickly.
Sure there is sadness and a feeling of loss, but at the same time there is this overwhelming joy that the person is moving toward something better for them.
When its not been ok with me, has been when the other person was dishonest about what he was up to. In my own life, this created a lot of tension, short fuses, and discontent on both ends. It also lead to cover ups, false accusations, and trying to make the other the bad guy.
So for me its easier to let go with love when the person I’m letting go is open about it….and when they’re not I find myself being much more hurt by the whole thing.
Peace,
Maria
August 28th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
Yep, I know both those routines, too, Maria. What’s beautiful is that having done it both ways seems to give me more access to choosing how to do it next time, if there is one.
Thanks for your beautiful post!
August 28th, 2008 at 4:01 pm
Oh this just gets better and better! Jeannette, your Dad’s perception makes my eyes pop open!
Danae, the ‘toaster metaphor’ demonstrates our connection to ’source energy’. Here, I’ll let Abraham Hicks explain.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzP8XOIwqTs
My suggestion was that love to us when we are solely identified with being a toaster (as opposed to the electricity) might be different than when we are connected to our source energy. The toaster has certain needs regarding purpose, requirements about the bread, size, shape, how light or dark . . . there are settings and dials and trap doors for getting rid of the crumbs. The electricity however, ’source energy’, may not have such requirements. When we are open to our source energy, love is being, and…love loves.
Jeannette, I am thrilled about your prognostic, synchronistic dream and the return of wild Siamese! Here is some cat-joy energy to brighten the day and help everyone feel lighter!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUb7PwuNNlM&feature=related
August 28th, 2008 at 8:27 pm
Kim, I KNEW you were going to explain that analogy better than I ever could!!
Thank you! That’s BEAUTIFUL!
August 28th, 2008 at 10:40 pm
Jeannette, will you tell your dad I have a crush on him?
OH, and I thought I had a Love Tabby sighting in Tucson this afternoon. I had a great giggle at the idea of sending you a photo of the Tucson Love Tabby. Then I went on giggling about Love Tabby developing an Elvis-like cult following. Can you imagine the virtual assistants needed to manage that?!
We ARE getting quite a few miles out of her adventures. thank you tabster!
Thanks for the props on my ezine today. Is anyone else also blogging on this topic elsewhere? I just posted on my blog at http://dreamandflourish.com/2008/08/28/wheres-your-love-spot/
thanks all,
w/ love,
Judy
August 28th, 2008 at 10:45 pm
Okay, Judy, that’s just cracking me up!! All around!!
Love Tabby sightings … hee hee
That’s a delicious visual!! lol
When I just looked outside to see if she might be lurking around a corner waiting to come back in, I called out, “Where’s my Love Tabby?” hee hee
It just made me smile!!
I’m posting a photo that John made of her I think everyone will get a kick out of …
August 29th, 2008 at 12:07 am
[…] Maw’s GoodVibe Blog entitled “Drawing the Line on Love” sparked a wonderful forum that explored a range of beliefs related to love and […]
August 29th, 2008 at 8:15 am
Ok — I feel like I’ve missed months and months of posts . . . this is so AWESOME!
Love that Kitty has come home . . . . giving “Love” where it is needed.
I am getting all sorts of great insight to how others view LOVE and the different kinds of Love that we have to give and of course receive.
For me, I love my children and little grandson oh so much and they, of course, cannot do anything that would remove my love for them. I love my C A T Smoews and my other animals that have passed … Love them all - same and differently.
Love my friends and family — differently as I do feel obligated to love the parents, grands, siblings, nephews etc . . . but I do love them - of course that goes to say that perhaps if I were not related to them I may or may not be friends with them — that just ads to the spice of live and acknowledging that we are all different and we bring different ‘things’ to this ‘pot luck called Life’
For me — I too wanted my husband to be very happy and when I wasn’t I wished him to be happy even more - the marriage ended and he is now very happy with someone that he’s known for a long time. Too me a very long time to understand this ‘event’ and I finally had that ah ha moment a few years back — I know that I not only created that for myself but allowed it to happen for them too . . . I’ve released this and know that what is is . . . . I am happy for them and know that I still Love my ex as a wonderful person and father of my very Awesome children . . . .
Love does change as situations change — My Love for others is indeed my Emotional Connection that I have for them at that time . . . . . . Love comes easily to me and I receive Love all the time from others . . . . .
Thank you for this great discussion!
Cheers, P.